91 e350 5.8 fuel pumps not turning on
#21
03-25-2020, 07:51 AM
Ok...well I cleaned up the terminals at the pcm and low and behold I now have 12 volts withe key on and also cranking. Actually cranking i get around 10.6.bif you recall from before i had 12 volts present all the time and key on and cranking the voltage would drop to zero.. once again the fuel pumps are not turning. Any thoughts?
#22
03-25-2020, 07:54 AM
Be careful here, and here's why,
Just when you think you see light at the end of the tunnel somebody shuts the light off.
When you turn the key on, the EEC relay closes and it sends power to the #4 terminal of the fuel pump relay. If the relay coil is good the other end of that coil will show power and that is terminal #1. When terminal #1 gets a ground it is supposed to activate that coil winding and close the relay contacts . This is what we are attempting to prove.HOWEVER,
When you stated in the last post that you had power to the #4 terminal with the key off , you found something that should not be ! Because that terminal is only supposed to get power from the EEC relay only when the key is on. Soooo , we need to find why this is happening.. Right off the top, IF that relay (EEC) is staying active, when the key is off, you have found your power drain. Remember that (EEC) relay is activated only when you tun the key on.
I do have a question, and that is are you sure you have the right relay because the relays are the same part # and if somebody is going by colors , not good.
What you need to do is have someone turn the key on and feel which relay is working, you can feel and hear it click. That should be the EEC relay. You cannot go by wire colors because the colors don't always agree with diagrams.
I don't want to discourage your efforts , but we need to be 100% sure of where we are. Those electrons don't care and will go where they want as long as there is a path.
When you get this thing straightened out your confidence will outweigh any feelings of I told you so. Hang in there and we will fix it .
Just when you think you see light at the end of the tunnel somebody shuts the light off.
When you turn the key on, the EEC relay closes and it sends power to the #4 terminal of the fuel pump relay. If the relay coil is good the other end of that coil will show power and that is terminal #1. When terminal #1 gets a ground it is supposed to activate that coil winding and close the relay contacts . This is what we are attempting to prove.HOWEVER,
When you stated in the last post that you had power to the #4 terminal with the key off , you found something that should not be ! Because that terminal is only supposed to get power from the EEC relay only when the key is on. Soooo , we need to find why this is happening.. Right off the top, IF that relay (EEC) is staying active, when the key is off, you have found your power drain. Remember that (EEC) relay is activated only when you tun the key on.
I do have a question, and that is are you sure you have the right relay because the relays are the same part # and if somebody is going by colors , not good.
What you need to do is have someone turn the key on and feel which relay is working, you can feel and hear it click. That should be the EEC relay. You cannot go by wire colors because the colors don't always agree with diagrams.
I don't want to discourage your efforts , but we need to be 100% sure of where we are. Those electrons don't care and will go where they want as long as there is a path.
When you get this thing straightened out your confidence will outweigh any feelings of I told you so. Hang in there and we will fix it .
#23
03-25-2020, 02:41 PM
Be careful here, and here's why,
Just when you think you see light at the end of the tunnel somebody shuts the light off.
When you turn the key on, the EEC relay closes and it sends power to the #4 terminal of the fuel pump relay. If the relay coil is good the other end of that coil will show power and that is terminal #1. When terminal #1 gets a ground it is supposed to activate that coil winding and close the relay contacts . This is what we are attempting to prove.HOWEVER,
When you stated in the last post that you had power to the #4 terminal with the key off , you found something that should not be ! Because that terminal is only supposed to get power from the EEC relay only when the key is on. Soooo , we need to find why this is happening.. Right off the top, IF that relay (EEC) is staying active, when the key is off, you have found your power drain. Remember that (EEC) relay is activated only when you tun the key on.
I do have a question, and that is are you sure you have the right relay because the relays are the same part # and if somebody is going by colors , not good.
What you need to do is have someone turn the key on and feel which relay is working, you can feel and hear it click. That should be the EEC relay. You cannot go by wire colors because the colors don't always agree with diagrams.
I don't want to discourage your efforts , but we need to be 100% sure of where we are. Those electrons don't care and will go where they want as long as there is a path.
When you get this thing straightened out your confidence will outweigh any feelings of I told you so. Hang in there and we will fix it .
Just when you think you see light at the end of the tunnel somebody shuts the light off.
When you turn the key on, the EEC relay closes and it sends power to the #4 terminal of the fuel pump relay. If the relay coil is good the other end of that coil will show power and that is terminal #1. When terminal #1 gets a ground it is supposed to activate that coil winding and close the relay contacts . This is what we are attempting to prove.HOWEVER,
When you stated in the last post that you had power to the #4 terminal with the key off , you found something that should not be ! Because that terminal is only supposed to get power from the EEC relay only when the key is on. Soooo , we need to find why this is happening.. Right off the top, IF that relay (EEC) is staying active, when the key is off, you have found your power drain. Remember that (EEC) relay is activated only when you tun the key on.
I do have a question, and that is are you sure you have the right relay because the relays are the same part # and if somebody is going by colors , not good.
What you need to do is have someone turn the key on and feel which relay is working, you can feel and hear it click. That should be the EEC relay. You cannot go by wire colors because the colors don't always agree with diagrams.
I don't want to discourage your efforts , but we need to be 100% sure of where we are. Those electrons don't care and will go where they want as long as there is a path.
When you get this thing straightened out your confidence will outweigh any feelings of I told you so. Hang in there and we will fix it .
#26
03-27-2020, 07:25 AM
We need to start over here.
Can you tell me if your Fuel pump relay plug has these color wires coming to the plug?
Red
Black w Org
Pink w Black
If not , do the color wires correspond to those in the site you posted
There seems to be some confusion and we need to clear up what we are working with.
Can you tell me if your Fuel pump relay plug has these color wires coming to the plug?
Red
Black w Org
Pink w Black
If not , do the color wires correspond to those in the site you posted
There seems to be some confusion and we need to clear up what we are working with.
Last edited by hanky; 03-27-2020 at 07:30 AM.
#27
03-27-2020, 05:00 PM
well Im not sure where my original response disapeared so hopefully it doesnt post twice. When you told me to chek for those 3 different color wires I found them on the other relay that we have not been testing. I was thrilled thinking we getting somewhere now and Im an idiot for testing the wrong relay this whole time...but heres the thing....You mentioned that if I turn the key and feel for the clicking relay it would be the EEC relay correct? Well the relay with the colors you mention is the one clicking. Also, the diag I have been using at that website says the green connector is the fuel pump relay and the brown is the EEC...which is what I have, all pointing to me testing the correct relay all along. Now I can tell you the the #4 wire on both relays are always hot. its a yellow wire on the fuel pump relay and a black/orange wire at the EEC relay. also, not sure if this means anything but today was the first chance to get a fuel pressure gauge on the engine. I really havent worried much about it since the engine runs when we jump or ground the system. Today we ground the test connector and it fired right up but the gauge read zero for a minute or so until we started to rev the crap out of it and bring the idle up to 2000 or so and the gauge slowly made it to 35 psi. Does this mean anything to you? I took a pic of the relays but cant seem to get them posted so if you want to PM me an email addy I will send it to you.
#28
03-27-2020, 07:38 PM
If nothing else I appreciate your patience and determination.
Don't feel badly thinking you made any mistakes here because with my so called experience I've made a couple too.
With that said, let's start again and now we both have a "hopefully clearer" idea of what we want to verify.
One of the reasons it took so long to get the pressure up could be the gauge connection on the fitting of the fuel rail may not have been all the way down.
If the pressure was that bad it would never have started.
I feel I have to apologize for sending you some incorrect info also. That is why I would like to start from the beginning and see if the colors you have jive with the Ford schematic that I am attempting to work from.
So,,,,,,,,,, Just please give me the colors of the wires on each of the two relay "Plugs"and I will check if they correspond with those on my schematic.
It should be much easier now that we both have some idea of where we are starting from. You already know which is the EEC relay because that is the one that will click AND stay on as long as the key is on , then drop off when you turn the key off (Both of those relays are inter changeable)
My diagram has one relay with YELLOW,,WHITE/LT BLUE , BLACK , RED -SHOULD BE EEC RELAY
THE OTHER RELAY- YELLOW,TAN/LT GRN,,RED, BROWN --------------FUEL PUMP RELAY
If your relay plugs are identical , we can go from there, if not let me know. Thanks
Don't feel badly thinking you made any mistakes here because with my so called experience I've made a couple too.
With that said, let's start again and now we both have a "hopefully clearer" idea of what we want to verify.
One of the reasons it took so long to get the pressure up could be the gauge connection on the fitting of the fuel rail may not have been all the way down.
If the pressure was that bad it would never have started.
I feel I have to apologize for sending you some incorrect info also. That is why I would like to start from the beginning and see if the colors you have jive with the Ford schematic that I am attempting to work from.
So,,,,,,,,,, Just please give me the colors of the wires on each of the two relay "Plugs"and I will check if they correspond with those on my schematic.
It should be much easier now that we both have some idea of where we are starting from. You already know which is the EEC relay because that is the one that will click AND stay on as long as the key is on , then drop off when you turn the key off (Both of those relays are inter changeable)
My diagram has one relay with YELLOW,,WHITE/LT BLUE , BLACK , RED -SHOULD BE EEC RELAY
THE OTHER RELAY- YELLOW,TAN/LT GRN,,RED, BROWN --------------FUEL PUMP RELAY
If your relay plugs are identical , we can go from there, if not let me know. Thanks
Last edited by hanky; 03-28-2020 at 08:06 AM.
#29
03-28-2020, 04:57 PM
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6dNEyXALko27eHJA9
Hopefully that will get you to the pic into so you can see with your own eyes. Otherwise this is how my two connectors break down.
green connector
Fuel: #1.blue/orange 2.red 3.drk grn/Ltd green 4. Yellow(always hot)
Brown connector
EEC: #1.black/green 2.red/green (or possibly pink/green) 3.red 4.black/orange(also always hot)
if you have a wiring diagram that would be helpful. Just to make sure we are working with a 91 e350 clubwagon with a 5.8. I'm near my phone so I will keep an eye out for your reply.
Hopefully that will get you to the pic into so you can see with your own eyes. Otherwise this is how my two connectors break down.
green connector
Fuel: #1.blue/orange 2.red 3.drk grn/Ltd green 4. Yellow(always hot)
Brown connector
EEC: #1.black/green 2.red/green (or possibly pink/green) 3.red 4.black/orange(also always hot)
if you have a wiring diagram that would be helpful. Just to make sure we are working with a 91 e350 clubwagon with a 5.8. I'm near my phone so I will keep an eye out for your reply.
#30
03-28-2020, 07:04 PM
I have 2 diagrams , one Ford and one by an aftermarket training manual . As you can imagine they don't agree. The circuit does, but the colors do not.
Do the pictures in your references agree with your wiring colors?
This is what I have had to do sometimes. The diagrams gave me some idea how the relays were used, Although they are identical relays they are wired and used differently.
I have in the past had to lift the cover off one of the relays and see just where each terminal went. After that I knew where the power came in , where it went out and the 2 terminals that activated the relay coil . I did my testing from there.
If the site info you suggested corresponds exactly with your vehicle , I will work from there , but I need to know if that is exactly correct.
Do the pictures in your references agree with your wiring colors?
This is what I have had to do sometimes. The diagrams gave me some idea how the relays were used, Although they are identical relays they are wired and used differently.
I have in the past had to lift the cover off one of the relays and see just where each terminal went. After that I knew where the power came in , where it went out and the 2 terminals that activated the relay coil . I did my testing from there.
If the site info you suggested corresponds exactly with your vehicle , I will work from there , but I need to know if that is exactly correct.