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F150 Starting Problems

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  #21  
Old 01-14-2012 | 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by imp
There is no ballast resistor; they went away with EFI.

The ignition switch does NOT feed power to the ignition coil (directly); the computer "fires" the coil by feeding power to it'sd primary at the proper time.

If you have not checked, crank the engine, with a plug wire removed, see if there is spark to that plug- a plastic-handled screwdriver used to make contact inside the rubber boot, holding shank near, 1/4", to a grounded surface while cranking. If spark to plug exists, looks like a FUEL issue:

Have you checked for fuel pressure at the Schrader Valve test point? Just because a fuel pump is heard running, does not mean proper pressure is available to the injectors. BEST is check pressure w/ fuel pressure gauge. If low, possible filter problem. imp
Ya replaced the fuel filter and it defently has better fuel pressure now...Before I replaced it and i hit the little pressure release point I got a little squirt, now i get a good squirt maybe 6" high. I am not getting any spark to plugs and i have had the TFI checked, Thx for input we keep trying.
 
  #22  
Old 01-14-2012 | 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hanky
If I may,
here is something you can try-- depending on just which system you have on the engine. If it has a distributor --transition year-- the pick up coil in the dist is what sends the signal to the coil to fire the plugs. With a test lite check if you have voltage to the coil when the key is in the on position. If so , the next thing to try is to place the test lite on the other coil primary terminal (with everything connected) and crank the engine. The test lite should flicker indicating that the coil is getting the signal to fire. That would eliminate the pick-up coil as a possibility. But as I believe you stated in a previous post the light didn't flicker so I would check out the pick up coil and make sure it has a good ground connection in the dist.
If it does not have a distributor then the PCM gets the signal from a crank sensor and tells the coil to fire.
Let us know what you find and we can go from there. There may be an Ignition control module involved , but need to know what system you have first.

Ya I tried that trick got it from the Napa dude....and no fire. with everything I've replaced I tend to lean like everybody towards a bad computer I really like my truck so as soon as I can get the hepl to take hood and fender off then I can put that spash guard down snd pull the computer out since it's already half way out...lol...keep fingers crossed....thx for your help
 
  #23  
Old 01-15-2012 | 08:34 AM
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Just to make sure---------did you get the flicker at the other coil terminal when cranking? If not, tearing out the computer isn't the way to go . You must get that signal from the distributor pick-up coil and swapping a computer that may be good will not correct the problem. The pick-up coil is located inside the distributor under the rotor.
Since you had the TFI module on the firewall tested and tested OK you are leaving out an important link in the chain by ignoring the pick-up coil. Yes it can be a pain to change , but you might consider proving it good before blaming the computer.
 
  #24  
Old 01-15-2012 | 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by hanky
Just to make sure---------did you get the flicker at the other coil terminal when cranking? If not, tearing out the computer isn't the way to go . You must get that signal from the distributor pick-up coil and swapping a computer that may be good will not correct the problem. The pick-up coil is located inside the distributor under the rotor.
Since you had the TFI module on the firewall tested and tested OK you are leaving out an important link in the chain by ignoring the pick-up coil. Yes it can be a pain to change , but you might consider proving it good before blaming the computer.

I replaced the Distributer and still no spark....sigh...
 
  #25  
Old 01-15-2012 | 02:28 PM
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With the key on do you have voltage coming to the coil?
If so, if you momentarily touch the other coil primary terminal with a wire connected to ground, you should get a nice hot spark out of the coil wire , do you get that ?
 
  #26  
Old 01-15-2012 | 06:42 PM
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Let me apologize in advance because I'm going to be brutally honest and tell you what none of the other guys are going . STOP F***ing AROUND AND PAY A MOBILE MECHANIC TO COME TEST YOUR "COMPUTER". YOUR "COMPUTER" IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE LOCATED UNDER THE DASH SO THAT IT IS PROTECTED FROM THE ELEMENTS. YOUR "COMPUTER" WILL NEVER BE LOCATED IN THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT. YOU WOULDN'T PUT YOUR BRAND NEW LAPTOP OUTSIDE IN THE RAIN AND NEITHER WOULD FORD. Your ecm controls the EFI(Electronic Fuel Injection). The ecm uses a series of relays and sensors to properly control delivery of fuel to your engine based on your driving habits. It will store 1000's of frames of data so that it knows what to do. your ecm will also run a series of checks on your sensors and relays in the pre-ignition sequence of starting your truck. If if does not get a ping with the proper data it may become confused and not know what to do next consequently causing the failure of starting the vehicle. "Computers" are hardy and will last forever and a day, but after 17 years it may have just gotten old and tired. I doubt any pc could sustain 17 years of use. Whatever the NAPA guy told you about not being able to test your ecm is malarkey. You have to remember the guys at NAPA sell parts and do not know D**K S**t about repairing vehicles. They are idiots and I would highly recommend that you no longer ask them for advice. You will get a more appropriate answer out of a Haynes manual then you will them and Haynes manuals are extremely vague. Your ecm will also store trouble data codes as well, which means, if a sensor, relay, and any other part that the "computer" has assumed control of is not functioning correctly, your ecm most likely has a stored trouble data code for it. Here comes the tricky part. Your truck is a 1995 and is subject to OBD1(On Board Diagnostics). OBD1 trouble codes are unique to manufacturer. A code 33 for a ford is not the same problem as a code 33 for a chrysler. In 1996 the federal government mandated that all trouble codes for any manufacturer be identical and hence OBD2 was introduced. This means a code 33 is the exact same problem for a chevy as a toyota and became no longer manufacturer specific. OBD1 and OBD2 are scanner specific and not all scanners can read both. I know you want to desperately repair your truck yourself but you may have to pay somebody a little money to help you. You can go to napa tell them what your doing and buy a genki scanner. The problem is that they are expensive and very crude. THEY ARE NOT CAPABLE OF A COMPLETE SCAN OF THE ECM. The only scanners that are capable is the high dollar stuff like snap on and could potentially run you 5000 dollars. We both know your truck is not even likely to be worth 5000 dollars and would be absolutely asinine to even consider purchasing something like that. Here comes the awesome part. For 75 bucks you could probably pay a mobile mechanic to come out and use his fancy 5000 dollar scanner to do it for you. If you do opt to pay a mobile mechanic and he tries to hook up a genki scanner from napa, DO NOT PAY HIM and find one with a real scanner that can do a full diagnostics scan. You have spent so much money on repairing one thing after another that you probably could have paid a shop to tow it, repair it, and give it a nice wash with some cherry air fresher. You only need four things to make an engine run, Air, Fuel, Compression, Spark. If the vehicle will not start it will always, always, always be one of those four causes. You can almost always eliminate air and compression. If the car ran before it died, you have compression. With that in mind you can most likely eliminate those two cause and concentrate on fuel and spark. Your "computer" controls both of these. If your basic backyard bubba diagnosis and repair procedures don't prove fruitful you will need to consult the the man in charge of your engine management(computer). The only way to do that is with a scanner. Since "The Man" speaks chinese and you speak english you will need a translator. I will give an ace in the hole though. Your system is OBD1. The beauty of OBD1 is that you may not need a scanner to diagnose the problem. You may be able to buy a code reader manual for 13 dollars at your local parts store that will define all the code numbers for your computer. If a code reader book is available it will guide you through a series of key clicks which will cause your engine check light on the dash to flash in a numerical series that will identify the code number. I.E.- flash, flash, flash, pause, flash, flash, flash will be code 33. The first three flash's identified the number for the 10th's place, and the last three flash's identified the number for the 1's place. There will never, ever be a 3 digit trouble code until mechanics have to start repairing star ships. With that in mind you be able to find a pdf of a code reader book and not have to spend any money on potentially diagnosing your computer. The trouble code stored in the computer could pinpoint the exact problem/problems and eliminate the guess work. I will tell you this much to save you a lot of time and headache. I'm assuming you have power because you said the truck cranks but does not fire. I want you to go out to your truck and simply turn the key to accessories position, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CRANK IT. When you place the ignition switch to the accessories position your check engine light on the instrument cluster, That's where all the gauges are, Should light up and stay on for a few seconds before going out. That is the aforementioned pre-ignition sequence. The truck does not need to be running to do this. If your trucks check engine light does not come on then your ecm is most likely fried and cannot communicate at all. This will give you a backyard bubba way of seeing whether or not the computer is doing anything. If the check engine light does initialize then you most likely have a retrievable trouble code that will pinpoint your problem and the computer is probably fine. I use a strong emphasis on probably because that's a pretty crude way to determine functionality. But remember that's what forums like this are all about, You can't be one with the box, you have to outsmart it. I'll tell you a good joke about boxes though and hopefully it will lift your spirits. What's dumber than a box of rocks.... The Hippi holding them. Whats dumber than the Hippi holding them... The guy buying them. HA! Once again I mean no harm in the above statement. I'm just trying to give you some more appropriate direction and good luck. Let me know how it ends up.
 
  #27  
Old 01-15-2012 | 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hanky
With the key on do you have voltage coming to the coil?
If so, if you momentarily touch the other coil primary terminal with a wire connected to ground, you should get a nice hot spark out of the coil wire , do you get that ?
I do not get anything on either side of coil.

bronco: I got your msg printed am reading it now....Thx
 
  #28  
Old 01-16-2012 | 12:46 AM
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It's Gonna take me a couple of days to get into the truck again...Got to do the work thing you know.....keep u posted
 
  #29  
Old 01-17-2012 | 06:17 PM
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Ok I'm back, And first of all I'd like to thank everybody who has tried to help. I found a YouTube video that showed how to put the truck into Diagnostic mode and did that and then i found a list of OBD1 codes. Now taking into account that they say the vehicle is supposed to up to operating tempiture not happing since we got 6" of snow today here is a list of codes in order that I got them and according to the list their meanings

Codes:

1st. 53 Throttle position circuit above max voltage
2nd. 34 egr valve circuit out of self-test range
3rd. 63 Throttle position circuit below min voltage
4th. 61 engine coolant temp circuit grounded
5th. 63 same as 3rd code
6th. 24 air charge temp (ACT) sensor out of self-test range
7th. 63 same as 3rd code

So there we are folks. I've learned a lot and collected some documentation that I'll keep on file...But she still dont run.
 
  #30  
Old 01-17-2012 | 07:20 PM
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I would suspect that you are determined to fix this vehicle yourself and I respect that.
If you are that determined and you can get the KOEO (key on engine off) codes after you clear all the codes you are off to a good start. When you get those KOEO codes you don't even try to start the vehicle just connect the code reader and turn on the key. What ever codes you get will need to be repaired before you go any further. Since it will not start, the code(s) will direct you to the system (s) that have a problem.
You take one step at a time and you should be able to find the problem. It can be a challenge , but the reward is getting it running and of course the feeling of accomplishment. That decision is entirely up to you. Post the code(s) you get and we will see if we can help direct you. Don't forget to clear all the codes in the computer first.
 



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