Have searched many places but found no answers.
Here's what the situation is.
Last January, I had a head gasket failure. Symptoms were loss of coolant out the back of the head at #8 and coolant in the oil. Also had bubbles and high pressure build up in the coolant system. Bubbles visable in the reservoir. Took apart the engine and found that it had been leaking combustion from #1 and #2 into the water jacket hence the bubbles and pressurization in the cooling system. I had the heads checked. Heads were pressure and vacuume checked and surfaced. Heads were only .002 and .003 thousandths out of flat and surfacing was considered optional. Got the Fel-Pro MLS top end gasket set and new head bolts. Followed recommended torque sequence meticulously. Torque to 28 ft-lbs, then turn 90 degrees, then back off one full turn and repeat sequence, Torque to 28 ft-lbs, turn 90 degrees, turn another 90 degrees. After reassembling the engine, it ran beautifully for about 2000 miles and then the gaskets failed again. So in August, I changed the head gaskets and bolts again. Heads and everything checked out fine and no additional work other than a meticulous cleaning was done. This time I did the torque differently though. I used the same MLS gaskets but for torque, this time I started out with 32 ft-lbs, I then turned 90 degrees but then I checked the torque and found a wide range in torques so I used a good torque wrench and found what the highest torque was and brought all the bolts up to that torque, then I gave the second twist of 90 degrees without backing off the bolts the one full turn as the bolt directions said to do, again, I cheched for the highest torque and brought all the bolts up to that torqur which happened to be 88 ft-lbs. this time the heads worked for 6000 miles before failing again.
So I have trying to figure out what to do.
I looked into the Cometic and SCE TITAN head gaskets and talked the situation over with my machinist and a retired Fordservice manager.
The Fel-Pro is still the best gasket for my F250 application is what they both felt. Both felt the best way to bolt the heads is to do what I did last time and torque to 32 ft-lbs, then turn 95 degrees and again 95 degrees but to not torque the bolts to a matching level of torque because they are engineered for twist to yield design not torque. I am also going to san the top of the block with 400 grit sand paper. The intent is to use a 12"x6" flat sanding block to get a little shine on the top of the block which I hope will reveal any high or low spots on the block surface but to also give the block a good clean, fresh surface. Hopefully this will be the last time I have a head gasket failure.

For anyone else with this problem. It is a time consuming project but can be done on your own with some mechanical aptitude. The most important part of the project is to be sure the timing chains are reinstalled properly. Look for the colored links or color your own if needed. Make sure to get the colored links on the timing marks correctly. Be absolutely certian the links don't jump a gear while reassembling. The Chiltons manual has all the information needed to do this project. All the torque specs and tightening sequences are in the book. It takes me four full days to do the whole project so be prepared for a long project with lots of climbing in and out of the engine compartment.

If anyone has had a similar experiance with head gaskets and has reached a sucessfull solution to the problem, I'd like to hear your suggestions to insure a good reliable seal that won't fail on me again.

 

you never said what size engine you have but i am going to guess it is a 5.4l if this is the case you are not torquing the head bolts properly and you should replace all the headbolts everytime you remove them -final torque on the headbolts should be 110 ft lbs + an additional 90 deg.-also make sure the radiator isn't plugged up causing excessive coolant pressure-throw the chilton manual in the trash-i saw a chilton maual for a dodge shadow state to torque the main bearing bolts to 210 ft lbs and the rod cap bolts to 120 ft lbs-(on a 4 cylinder engine) lol-i will bet if someone followed that manual the engine would lock up as soon as it started-lol.

 

The engine is a 5.4 with the newer larger port PI heads.
This engine is right at the change point from the NPI to the PI head.
Pre 1999 head gaskets were prone to failures. The MLS gasket was an attempt to solve the problem of different expansion contraction charachteristics between the cast iron block and the aluminum head.
What I have found in researching is that the Fel-ProMLS gasket requires a very smooth, finely machined surface.
The surface spec for the older5.4 was less than for the 2000 and newer 5.4. That is one of the issues that needs to be addressed on my engine.
I have addressed the smoothness issue byusing a flat sanding block and using 400 grit sand paper on the engine deck surface followed by fine grit for a very smooth surface. Unorthodox yes but I'm not pulling this engine. I'll get a newtruck if this fails. After sanding the deck surface, I checked for flatness with a machinists straight edge and the deck surface is now flat to within .001 feeler gauge which is better than it was before I sanded. There were machine marks on the surface before and tolerance was .0025. I also was able to tighten up the tolerences where the gaskets were known to have failed before. The overall flatness is better now measureing in several directions.
As for torquing the head bolts. They do not bolt to 110 ft-lbd +another 90 degrees. Perhaps you could do that with ARP but I'm using the Fel-Pro twist to yield engineered bolt. That is way over tightening for what I'm doing. Ford, Fel-Pro, and my machinist have all stated to torque to 32 ft-lbs + 90 degrees and + another 90 degrees,,,, done. No heat cycle retorque or anything. Just chase the threads and use a good assembly lube to get an accurate twist.
So tomorrow, I'll start reassembling the engine. I'm going to be sure all mating surfaces are completely clean, oil free, dry, And try to raise the ambient temperature in my garage to about 70 degrees to help the gasket surface seal itself properly.
The Chilton book has had the correct information for everything I've used it for. I will say they have some methods that are different than what I have chosen to do but the book does provide a good baseline of information. One just needs to take what the book says and apply it how they want to to get the job done. The way they describe to do a repair isn't always the best but they are trying to describe what to do for people of various levels of ability. That can be a thankless goal.
Hopefully, I'll have a running truck again tomorrow afternoon or Monday morning.

I see lots of questions on this website but I don't seed a lot of answers so That's what I'm trying to provide here.
I'll let you know how things turn out.

 

Installed the new head gaskets today.
Thereis a new version of the Fel-Pro MLS gasket. Gone is the sticky surface and they are now blue in color.
The old gaskets had4 layers and the new ones have 4 layers.
The gaskets each came in their own packing within the top end gasket kit.
Fel-Pro had their installation instructions and specifications on the package for each head gasket.
Fel-Pro says tho keep the gasket and mating surfaces clean and that the head and block surfaces must have a smoothness rating of Ra 60 or better. A lower Ra number (IE: Ra 30) is smoother and better than a Ra 60 or higher rating.
OK, so you follow the instructions on the head gasket package and you complete the head installation.
Now you get ready to start the next step and now you discover a small piece of paper with ammended head gasket instructions.
The ammendment to the installation states that the head and block must have a surface smoothness of Ra 30 or better.
If a smoothness of Ra 30 or better cannot be had, then spray the head gaskets with a gasket sealer on all sides and let dry before installing.
Thanks Fel-Pro for putting this critical installation information on a seperate piece of paper instead of on the head gasket packaging with the old instructions where it would be more obvious.
So now I have to worry if this installation will fail in 6000 miles like the other 2 head gasket installations or not because of this poorly communicated set of instructions. When you pull out the head gaskets from the kitand see the instructions on the package, you wouldn't think to look for a second set of instructions with different instructions dumped in the box on a little piece of paper.
What makes it so annoying is that this is a new gasket and people don't know about it yet. The machinist and Ford dealer I spoke with were very clear not to use a gasket sealer. With the old gasket, Fel-Pro was very clear to not use a sealer on the old style gasket because the gasket had a sticky surface already on it.

So if anyone is going to attempt to change their 4.6 or5.4 head gaskets. You need to make sure your head and block mating surfaces have a smoothness rating of Ra 30 or better. If you can't get that smooth of a surface, you can apply a gasket sealer to the new blue color MLS gaskets.

It is clear that there has been a lot of trouble for Fel-Pro with this gasket and hopefully the new style gasket will work better than the old one.

I hope to git er dun tommorrow and I'll let y'all know how things work out.

 

Got the timing chains andassociated components lined up and installed the timing cover.
Valve covers, intake manifold, all the electrical and other manifold connections completed.
Tomorrow, install new power steering pump, alternator, and the rest of the stuff.
Theoretically it should all be working tomorrow.

 

Truck is back together and running very nicely.
Drove 40 miles and has good power. No indication of coolant loss.
It took a few minutes for the timing tensioners to pump up so they made a bit of a clatter for a while.

In review.
Fel-Pro has released a new head gasket.
The new gasket is blue with 4 layers and has no sticky surface like the previous version did.
According to Fel-Pro, you need to have a block deck and head surface smoothness Ra 30 or better. If you have a higher number than Ra 30, you need to spray both sides of the head gasket with sealer and let dry before installing. If the surfaces have a Ra 60 or higher, Fel-Pro says the gasket may not work.
The recommened initial torque is supposed to be 28 to 32 ft-lbs. I torqued mine to 36 ft-lbs. I also went over the bolts three times before they all had a set of 36 ft-lbs. Be sure to go through the initial torque sequence untill all the bolts are at the torque you want. You start from the center and work you way to the outer ends of the heads. As you torque through the sequence, the heads keep flattening to the block surface so you need to keep going through the torque sequence untill the proper torque is achieved on all the bolts. After proper torque is achieved, Turn each bolt in sequence another 90 degrees and then again 90 more degrees. after that, your done, hope for the best.

The only tricky part is to be ABSOLUTELY CERTIAN you have the timing chains installed properly. Chilton's manual has this information for the installation.

The whole project took 6, 10 hour days. Total cost was about 350.00. The Ford dealer wanted 3500.00 and a local machanic wanted 2800.00.

That concludes this project. Hope this information helps the next person.

Best of luck with yours.

 

so you didnt take my advice and torque the headbolts to the desired specs- you will be replaceing the head gaskets again guaranteed-you are not tightening them enough period-i have a 97 f-150 flareside with 96600 original miles onit-i installeda 100 hp nitous kit on it when the odometer hit 15000 miles have run approx. 20 full bottles through this stockengine since thenand have not had any problems with anything failing-torque specs on my engine are 110 +90 deg.

 

marks460
I've put on 200 miles now over the last three days and so far things are working.
I am curious to know where you are getting your specification for 110 ft-lbs torque+ 90 degrees turn to torque the heads with?
I've looked at several sources for torque specs and all of them, no exceptions, has stated to torque 28 - 32 ft-lbs and then turn 90 degrees and again 90 degrees. the only exception may be if you are installing ARP studs and nuts. Even so, The final torque I applied averages out to be about 88 to 90 ft-lbs after the final turn of 90 degrees which is plenty of torque. I've assembled several Pontiac 400's and 455's, ford FE 352 and 428. The torque on these engines are all in the 80 to 100 ft-lbs range.A Ford 429 - 460 is 140 ft-lbs. With the torque you are stating, there is a strong chance someone would twist the bolt and snap it below the block deck surface and that would be fun wouldn't it. Aluminum heads are much more flexalbe and more likely to conform to the block surface than cast iron heads. An aluminum head should not require as much torque to seal as cast iron. It is possible that because of the flexabity in the aluminum head, it is more critical to follow the maunfactures specifications than it is with cast iron heads. You could over torque and cause a problem that way too by warping the head, causing crush under the bolts and lift between the bolts. More is not always better. If there is a problem with sealing try to find the cause. As I have written above, I believe the cause of my sealing problem was not the torque or the finish on the head but the factory machine surface on my block. I took measure to flatten and smooth my block deck surface to try to meet the flatness and smoothness standars specified by Fel-Pro. The thing I missed because Fel-Pro didn't put the information on the head gasket with the installation instructions was to spray on gasket sealer. (RecallFel-Pro dumped in a little 4x6 paper with an addendum to the installation specifications stating that the smoothness had to be a Ra 30 or smoother or to use a gasket sealer up to Ra 60 and if less smooth than Ra 60 that the installation will probably fail.) So I did not use a gasket sealer but I believe I did achieve a smoothness of at least Ra 30 and a flatness of less than .0015at any point on the block which is better than the .005 I measured before I block sanded off the top of the engine's block.

We'll see how it works over the next few months. Right now it runs like a champ. Going to change the oil this morning and check for coolant. People should know to never use anything but 5-30 oil in this engine. The timing chain tensioners have some small oil passages that spray oil on the timing chains. Thicker oil may not lubricate your timing chains properly.

I've put a lot of effort in this post to give other people good information on how to fix their engines and I want to make sure it's correct.

 

hi, i know that you have hadalot of head gasket failures with your engine -i work at a ford delership(24 yrs now)and that is the specs for my 1997 ford f-150 4.6l engine with the torque to yeild bolts -which are still the factory bolts with NOS sprayed plenty of times through this engine -i am the original owner of this truck and to this day have had no problem whatsoever with this engine it now has 98,000 original miles and has seen plenty of racing abuse -but i keep the filters changed and the oil changed evry 2.5k miles with royal purple 5-20-this engine originally called for 5-30 but i know the clearances in this engine are very close-i just hope your head gaskets failures are over ,mark.

 

Mark,
I've looked around and talked to lots of people about the 5.4 head gasket situation.
I don't know if the 4.6 is prone to the failure problems that the 5.4 is.
The difference in torque for the 4.6 and 5.4 specification could be due to the longer length of the bolts in the 5.4or other reasons.
I did go a little tighter than spec as described above with the final torque being about 90 ft-lbs.
So far, the engine is working great and no indication of any leakage of any type has shown up.

I was looking at buying a new F-350 but the 42K price tag is more than I want to spend right now.
Fordwould only offer me 4K for my 2000 F-250 in trade which I thought was pretty low ball because it is a nicely kepttruck.
I think right now, I've decided to wait for the new Ford 6.7 liter Scorpion Diesel to come out then get a new one.
I can do another gasket job on the truck if I have to for a few days time and 400.00 dollars.
It's a lot cheaper than the new truck.
And next time if God forbid that happens, after I stop swearing about it, I'll fix it again and use the copper coat gasket seal.
The things we have to do to keep our toys running.

The real test will come in the next couple weeks when we load up the truck camper and start heading to the coast a couple times.
I think the current fix should lastat least for the next 6 months or permanently. We'll have to wait and see.

Jeff