2003 taurus
#11
Well, finally, someone from my neck of the woods! Escorts (really Mazda 323 and protoge, if I remember correctly) had slighly different (OK, REALLY different) wiring that is a little confusing.
I have owned a bunch of these cars, and I totally agree that grounding was always an issue on these. Typically (and on my car also, because I hardly ever work on it), the neg. battery terminal had the post, then a connector that had a bunch of little wires in it, and then a pigtail that went to the chassis, very near the wiper motor.
All of these MUST be unreproachably clean to get off square one with these cars. All those little wires ground things like the fuel pump, ignition system, and the really important things like the radio. This is a great place to start.
One thing all Escorts do when these get dirty is to do really weird things (like stall, be a hard start, "blink out" and come back), all without ever setting a code. One thing that all Fords have, and hardly no one thinks of, is that the chassis, engine, and battery all have to have clean, adequate grounds, all the time. I'll bet you fixed your problems.
However, if it's still acting up after the repair, then it's time to get into the fuel injection system. This body style was common to have a weak (no the typical vapor lock concerns) fuel pump when hot (usually on hot days, when driven for a while, and the A/C hastens this). This would cause the fuel pressure to collapse and go down to say, like 10 psi. This is enough to keep the engine running (barely), but not enough to move it.
Please let us know.
I have owned a bunch of these cars, and I totally agree that grounding was always an issue on these. Typically (and on my car also, because I hardly ever work on it), the neg. battery terminal had the post, then a connector that had a bunch of little wires in it, and then a pigtail that went to the chassis, very near the wiper motor.
All of these MUST be unreproachably clean to get off square one with these cars. All those little wires ground things like the fuel pump, ignition system, and the really important things like the radio. This is a great place to start.
One thing all Escorts do when these get dirty is to do really weird things (like stall, be a hard start, "blink out" and come back), all without ever setting a code. One thing that all Fords have, and hardly no one thinks of, is that the chassis, engine, and battery all have to have clean, adequate grounds, all the time. I'll bet you fixed your problems.
However, if it's still acting up after the repair, then it's time to get into the fuel injection system. This body style was common to have a weak (no the typical vapor lock concerns) fuel pump when hot (usually on hot days, when driven for a while, and the A/C hastens this). This would cause the fuel pressure to collapse and go down to say, like 10 psi. This is enough to keep the engine running (barely), but not enough to move it.
Please let us know.
#12
Replaced ground - more power, same issues
I was able to test drive my car after replacing the main ground to the engine block. The good news is I seem to have more power. The bad news is that my original issue is still present.
Greasemark, you're absolutely right about the little pigtail ground - I forgot to hook it up when I was putting everything back together before the storm hit. Needless to say, I was stumped for a few minutes as to why my car wouldn't start
I'm still having the same issues, so maybe it is time to check the fuel pump as you suggest. How hard is that to tackle? I've read that you just have to remove the back seat and there's an access door to work on the fuel pump. Is that correct, and can it be replaced through the same access panel or do you need to drop the tank?
Hate to hijack the thread, so to speak, but the issues sound pretty similar so I hope any suggestions can be aimed toward the original poster as well. Thanks for your input.
Edit: I was about 1/2 mile from my house when it started sputtering really bad again, so I pulled over, shut the engine off for all of 5 seconds, started back up, and it was able to pull the hill the rest of the way no problem. Could the fuel pump cool down that quickly?
Edit #2: About an hour ago I removed the little harness of ground wires from the battery and cleaned its copper ground plate with a wire brush. Also disconnected the two wiring clips cleaned all the connectors on both harness and clip. If either the fuel pump or ignition ground was on that socket somewhere, that might explain things as most of the connectors were in pretty sad looking shape. I really hope this is it. If this doesn't work, I think I'll definitely look into checking the fuel pump out. Guess I'll know tomorrow on the drive home.
Update: The last ground repair didn't fix it. After work I'm going to pull the fuel pump from my old 98 Escort chassis. I know it was in good shape. I'm also going to pull the FPDM from the old chassis as well. The issues didn't start until after the engine was moved into a new body (old car was in a wreck but engine was undamaged). The donor body that I'm using had about 1/4 tank of nasty gas in it when we got it. I did some further research and replacing the fuel pump in a '98 Escort is fairly straightforward. It can all be done through the access point under the rear seat. I'm just hoping there isn't a lot of gunk in the tank as I don't have time to swap tanks until the weekend, and I really need my car running right ASAP.
Greasemark, you're absolutely right about the little pigtail ground - I forgot to hook it up when I was putting everything back together before the storm hit. Needless to say, I was stumped for a few minutes as to why my car wouldn't start
I'm still having the same issues, so maybe it is time to check the fuel pump as you suggest. How hard is that to tackle? I've read that you just have to remove the back seat and there's an access door to work on the fuel pump. Is that correct, and can it be replaced through the same access panel or do you need to drop the tank?
Hate to hijack the thread, so to speak, but the issues sound pretty similar so I hope any suggestions can be aimed toward the original poster as well. Thanks for your input.
Edit: I was about 1/2 mile from my house when it started sputtering really bad again, so I pulled over, shut the engine off for all of 5 seconds, started back up, and it was able to pull the hill the rest of the way no problem. Could the fuel pump cool down that quickly?
Edit #2: About an hour ago I removed the little harness of ground wires from the battery and cleaned its copper ground plate with a wire brush. Also disconnected the two wiring clips cleaned all the connectors on both harness and clip. If either the fuel pump or ignition ground was on that socket somewhere, that might explain things as most of the connectors were in pretty sad looking shape. I really hope this is it. If this doesn't work, I think I'll definitely look into checking the fuel pump out. Guess I'll know tomorrow on the drive home.
Update: The last ground repair didn't fix it. After work I'm going to pull the fuel pump from my old 98 Escort chassis. I know it was in good shape. I'm also going to pull the FPDM from the old chassis as well. The issues didn't start until after the engine was moved into a new body (old car was in a wreck but engine was undamaged). The donor body that I'm using had about 1/4 tank of nasty gas in it when we got it. I did some further research and replacing the fuel pump in a '98 Escort is fairly straightforward. It can all be done through the access point under the rear seat. I'm just hoping there isn't a lot of gunk in the tank as I don't have time to swap tanks until the weekend, and I really need my car running right ASAP.
Last edited by asimons04; 07-10-2012 at 03:25 PM.
#13
Wow, I don't know quite what to say. I really don't think that it's fuel pump related, as you correctly stated that the pump wouldn't possilby cool down in that period of time (just a key cycle).
However, upon reflection, if the fuel filter came with the body, then has that been replaced (especially if the old gas was stale)? And your right on the money; the fuel pump is easily replaced by lifting the back seat bottom pickup up all the spare change and whatever, and removing the access plate.
At this point, can you access a diag. monitor and either read codes or drive it while hooked up to a scanner? It might help provide a clue.
One other thing to think of: If the car you're driving now was not used for a while, have you checked all the connectors under the hood? I remember that the 2 large mulit-pin square connectors in the upper RH area of the engine (next to the eng. lifting hook, if it's still there) used to like to corrode and have a bunch of little flexibility concerns.
As for checking the fuel pressure, there is a tap for it. Just connect a gauge, check for leaks, and drive away and monitor it.
Let us know!
However, upon reflection, if the fuel filter came with the body, then has that been replaced (especially if the old gas was stale)? And your right on the money; the fuel pump is easily replaced by lifting the back seat bottom pickup up all the spare change and whatever, and removing the access plate.
At this point, can you access a diag. monitor and either read codes or drive it while hooked up to a scanner? It might help provide a clue.
One other thing to think of: If the car you're driving now was not used for a while, have you checked all the connectors under the hood? I remember that the 2 large mulit-pin square connectors in the upper RH area of the engine (next to the eng. lifting hook, if it's still there) used to like to corrode and have a bunch of little flexibility concerns.
As for checking the fuel pressure, there is a tap for it. Just connect a gauge, check for leaks, and drive away and monitor it.
Let us know!
#14
One other thing I forgot to mention; a long time ago I got sick and tired of having to do trivial maintanance to my car, and soldered all the small wires to the neg. battery lead to prevent a reoccurance of the ground issue. 60K plus miles later, all I have to do is just clean the neg. post every great once in a while. Sloth have NEVER been one of my shortcommings!
#15
It seems like all I have to do is pull over, turn off the ignition, turn the key to ON, let the pump reprime, and then I'm good go to for another few miles.
Could it be the fuel pump driver module instead? I don't currently have access to a fuel pressure gauge, but I will buy one if I have to.
I actually haven't checked the 2 large multi-pin connectors other than to make sure they were in tight. I'll take them out and see if maybe they are corroded.
I put a new fuel filter on this body back in February, so I doubt that's it. Also, I went to get the fuel pump out of my old car and somebody had already helped themselves to the whole tank as well as a few other choice parts . Now I have to buy a fuel pump to even try it. I don't know if I want to trust an unknown junkyard pul or not. I was able to put in a good FPDM, but I won't get to test drive it for a few days. I'm wondering if I can trust it when I do take it out.
Could it be the fuel pump driver module instead? I don't currently have access to a fuel pressure gauge, but I will buy one if I have to.
I actually haven't checked the 2 large multi-pin connectors other than to make sure they were in tight. I'll take them out and see if maybe they are corroded.
I put a new fuel filter on this body back in February, so I doubt that's it. Also, I went to get the fuel pump out of my old car and somebody had already helped themselves to the whole tank as well as a few other choice parts . Now I have to buy a fuel pump to even try it. I don't know if I want to trust an unknown junkyard pul or not. I was able to put in a good FPDM, but I won't get to test drive it for a few days. I'm wondering if I can trust it when I do take it out.
Last edited by asimons04; 07-10-2012 at 11:33 PM.
#16
Usually (NOT always), a fault in the FPDM will set a code; so I doubt it's that. Also, if you think the filter is good, consider that this fuel system recirculates ALL the fuel in the tank every 45 minutes, or so. It could easily be a problem (i had it happen to me after only 1 week, trust me).
Look on the bright side; if you buy a gauge (even a cheap one will do), you can use it to diagnose other cars, also.
Look on the bright side; if you buy a gauge (even a cheap one will do), you can use it to diagnose other cars, also.
#17
Fingers Crossed
After much forum searching, Googling, and thought, I decided to buy and install a new fuel pump today. Only took me about 2 1/2 hours which I think isn't bad since I've never done it before. Worst part was getting the retaining ring off. Had to use a LOT of PB Blaster to get it broke loose. After that, everything went smoothly. Unfortunately, had to reuse the old retaining ring (you'd think those come with the assembly).
Hooked everything back up, held my breath, and turned the key to ON. Heard the pump really loud for a second or two as it first primed. I let it prime 3 or 4 times and it started on the first crank. Awesome.
I idled the car for about 15 minutes and didn't see any leaks...at first.
When I backed the car around to take it for a test drive, I looked back and see a puddle around the edge of the retaining ring. I soaked it up and started the car back up, but didn't see anything leaking. I think it was just excess PB Blaster and some of the gas that the rag didn't catch. When I backed out, it flowed from wherever it was. Once I was satisfied it wasn't leaking I drove it around for a few miles and it seemed like it had better acceleration, so that was a plus. It was too cool out and I didn't drive it long enough to know if it fixed me for god.
Got back and the pump area was dry as a bone. The old retaining ring and tank ring were pretty rusty and I feared the tank wouldn't seal, although I did get an O-ring with the kit. I got gas on my way out and did not see any leaks when I got back. I really hope the seal is good. I will probably have Autozone order a new retaining ring for me and go ahead and replace it.
Hope this works.
Hooked everything back up, held my breath, and turned the key to ON. Heard the pump really loud for a second or two as it first primed. I let it prime 3 or 4 times and it started on the first crank. Awesome.
I idled the car for about 15 minutes and didn't see any leaks...at first.
When I backed the car around to take it for a test drive, I looked back and see a puddle around the edge of the retaining ring. I soaked it up and started the car back up, but didn't see anything leaking. I think it was just excess PB Blaster and some of the gas that the rag didn't catch. When I backed out, it flowed from wherever it was. Once I was satisfied it wasn't leaking I drove it around for a few miles and it seemed like it had better acceleration, so that was a plus. It was too cool out and I didn't drive it long enough to know if it fixed me for god.
Got back and the pump area was dry as a bone. The old retaining ring and tank ring were pretty rusty and I feared the tank wouldn't seal, although I did get an O-ring with the kit. I got gas on my way out and did not see any leaks when I got back. I really hope the seal is good. I will probably have Autozone order a new retaining ring for me and go ahead and replace it.
Hope this works.
#18
Well! It could be anything! It's better you check with an auto expert and ask him what's d instant reaction can be taken on this! May be your car is old and not taking enough new engines and power to run. Go ahead and keep posting my buddy!
#19
Success!
I was able to make it all the way home from work with no issues!
I think the fuel pump did the trick. I'll keep an eye on it for a few days, but I really think this is it.
Thanks to everyone for their input, especially Greasemark. Without your suggestion to look toward the fuel system , I'd probably still be checking grounds and getting nowhere.
I'll post back in a few days to confirm whether the fix is for good (I have high hopes).
Ibyer, you might want to look into getting your fuel pump checked out. Mine would work perfectly for a while and then not be able to maintain pressure when hot/under load. If you're the DIY-type of person, here is an excellent video on Youtube of a guy replacing a pump in a 1999 Taurus. It covers everything from dropping the tank, removing the pump, and reinstalling.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and support.
I think the fuel pump did the trick. I'll keep an eye on it for a few days, but I really think this is it.
Thanks to everyone for their input, especially Greasemark. Without your suggestion to look toward the fuel system , I'd probably still be checking grounds and getting nowhere.
I'll post back in a few days to confirm whether the fix is for good (I have high hopes).
Ibyer, you might want to look into getting your fuel pump checked out. Mine would work perfectly for a while and then not be able to maintain pressure when hot/under load. If you're the DIY-type of person, here is an excellent video on Youtube of a guy replacing a pump in a 1999 Taurus. It covers everything from dropping the tank, removing the pump, and reinstalling.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and support.
#20
Hmm absolutely correct! I agree with you my friend that Greasemark was very helpful. whatever he said it was right and d fuel part was much better. I am too impressed by his remark. yeah you also keep checking its parts for the future.
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