Hi, new here to the forum and wondered if anyone has experienced this issue before. I have a '97 T-bird, 3.8L. It began sputtering periodically a month ago. A week later the engine light came on. Code P0131 and P1131. Upstream O2 sensor, bank 1. I changed the plugs, cleaned the MAF sensor and all air ducts to intake and replaced the air filter. Based on my research so far, and given that I'm losing coolant (I have been for years), I may have a bad head gasket. Just curious if anyone's got an experience with this problem and could suggest a way to test. the car has 130K on it and runs great otherwise. I was quoted $1460 to do the gaskets.

Thanks in advance!

Jay

 

A cooling system pressure test might lead you to the source of the coolant loss.
If you haven't noticed any unusual appearance in the motor oil, or any unusual deposits on any of the spark plugs , it is possible the coolant may be going somewhere outside the engine. It would be nice if you had an external leak and didn't have to open up the engine. Let's hope it is something simple and not expensive. Let us know what the pressure test reveals.

 

Thanks a lot for the response. I just did the oil and it looked normal. Never had an issue there, thankfully. I also just changed the plugs and they pretty much just looked used, but I’m going to inspect again tonight. Thankfully I numbered them. But none were really clean, as I understand that would indicate coolant going into the cylinder. That is what I’ve been expecting, since I have smelled coolant at the tailpipe before. A few had a rusty appearance which is what I thought would be a symptom of coolant in the cylinder. I will rent a pressure tester and see if that shows me anything. I’m curious if that would show a leak on the motor or just the lines/radiator. The radiator is 5 years old. Coolant has never dripped. Wherever it is going, it’s burning off somehow. I’d love this to not be a head gasket!

 

Usually a rusty tan appearance is what would be considered ,,,,normal !
Anti-freeze contamination appears white with a burned on deposit.
If you check the plugs one at a time you will see the difference if that is the problem.
The fact that you smelled antifreeze at the tail pipe is not a good sign.
The pressure test will tell you if you have a leak, but won't tell where. If it is an external leak, depending on how much and where, you will eventually see the AF running or dripping, it does go downhill when not moving. Pump the pressure tester up to at least the pressure on the radiator cap, maybe 15 lbs. There is no need to go more than a pound or two over what ever the cap has been rated for.
Sometimes anti freeze will leak into an intake port and get into the cylinder that way. So don't be hasty having head gaskets replaced when it could be a leaking intake manifold gasket. (It's a lot cheaper too). Take one step at a time and you could get lucky.
I don't remember if there is a coolant passage through the throttle body, but if there is the AF can be seen leaking in there when under pressure. Look in the intake if you can to spot that.

 

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that’s what it is, if not something even simpler. I’ve got some tests to do and hopefully they’ll lead me to the answer. I’ll do the coolant test over the weekend. The plugs basically looked normal, but a few looked a little more rusty than I’m used to seeing. I’ll look at them closer tonight. Thank you again for the help. Very much appreciated!

 

The 3.8L engine is why I didn't really like Fords for a long time. I've worked on way, way too many of them, and if I remember correctly, this was covered by a recall or two back in the day for headgaskets.
One other way these gaskets used to go bad was to have the engine miss for a couple of seconds after a hot soak, which would clear up. It would get progressively worse, until you couldn't ignore it.

 

You could try a leak detector that looks for exhaust gases in the coolant. Napa sells one for $43. It's their item #BK 700-1006. I've included the link for the item.

NAPA AUTO PARTS

 

Thank you all for the help. Recall crossed my mind, but I figured that they probably wouldn’t recall something like that which would cost so much money to repair, and even if it were recalled, it’s way past its expiration by now. I looked, anyway, online, and couldn’t find anything except a lighting recall. It is a little annoying to think that a gasket has probably expired a lot of cars prematurely. When I bought this car I looked for a spoiler to put on it at a junk yard and saw a half dozen of the 3.8L cars in there with under 130K on them. It was my first clue as to what I was in for. But I bought the car with 47K 6 years ago, so I knew I’d get my $4200 worth out of it.

 

I've personally had really bad experiences with 2 seperate 3.8L cars I owned, but it was really interesting to see that when these started to get new engines in the Windbags and Tourtises back about 12 years ago, they started to come with new waterpumps because it was such a common problem and the usual way that the engine got cooked. It was nice to see Ford finally trying to put a little distance between the new engine and replacement.
I can only say, with great relief, that THANK GOD this engine went to the great graveyard in the sky.

 

Thanks for the reply. I just did an oil and it seems normal. Never had any problems there, thankfully. I also just changed the plugs and see pretty much just use it, but I'll check again tonight. Fortunately, I counted. But no one is really clean, I take it that would indicate coolant entering the cylinder. This is what I expected, given that I have bad air out or get out first. Some have a rusty appearance which is what I thought would be a symptom of cooling the cylinder. I rent a pressure tester and see if that shows nothing. I'm curious to know if he would show a loss on the machine or just lines / radiator. Radiator is 5 years. Cooling was never drip. Wherever you go, you burn in some way. I wish that this is not the head gasket!